Surely the most obvious explanation is that they want to hoover the scare word of rape into their campaign that will primarily criminalise therapists and religious conservatives. With the bonus that the targets of this thought police legislation will be lumped in with actual rapists in terms of stigma.
Nonetheless an excellent article exposing the lack of merit of the specific proposal.
Is Stonewall keeping quiet about the fact that they want this law to protect trans “identity” and criminalise challenging the concept? This is the real objective. To criminalise all critiques of “trans”. So in fact nothing at all has changed at Stonewall.
I've only ever seen the term corrective rape used in the context of lesbians ie men imposing heterosexual acts upon them to 'correct' their homosexuality. Its hard to imagine an equivalent being imposed on men. I can see that punishment rapes by men on men are a reality, but not heterosexual acts?
I would also add that men identifying as trans and forcing sex on lesbians could well also be construed a form of corrective rape. 'Get to love my girl dick!'!
Completely take your point Lynne, "corrective" rape could only ever be of a lesbian by definition. As to the trans example, God only knows what a court would make of that when the Defendant claimed to be a woman, that's a whole other can of worms we might get some assistance with when the FWS judgment comes out.
The paradox is that a rapist of a lesbian could claim that it was not conversion practice because he is also a lesbian, with the Equality Act protected characteristic of gender identity. Would this trump a victim's protected characteristic of a sincerely held belief that a man cannot be a lesbian? What happens if the victim does not hold that belief because they are a 'trans ally'?
Hi Lynn, if the proposed law doesn't specify in which direction the corrective goes, a man who is accused of raping a straight man could in theory also be accused of disrespecting the victim's sexual identity via a conversion practice. I would imagine a prosecution on that basis as being very unlikely, as it would imply a two-tier standard depending on the sexuality of the victim, and almost no-one considers straight men as having a protected characteristic. But if the law is consistent, it could be an aggravating factor.
Yes I see your point Daniel. Tho disrespecting sexual identity is still different to the notion of 'corrective' which implies corrective towards heterosexuality and would therefore be inflicted by a heterosexual.
Rape, however, does not belong within the Conversion Therapy model, whichever way you cut it. Its this attempt to redefine language and terms to suit their activist agenda which is in some ways most concerning. We are already in deep sht by the corruption of terms such as woman and lesbian, to redefine rape out of its violence context and into a conversion therapy model is potentially horrifying in its consequences.
Brilliant Dennis, as always. Encouraging people (especially children) to assume the fantasy status of ‘trans identity’ (whatever tf that is) is already a type of conversation therapy. It converts people from their natural state of being into an unnatural and even dangerous position - in relation to both their mental & their physical health.
As for the situation with rape - its definition & suggested treatment in law - WTAF? Horrific.
Again, this utter sham of a formely-admirable charity attempts to write its own law. Those efforts were brought to a proper public awareness in December 2023 when Kemi Badenoch threw some much-needed disinfecting sunlight on them as she slapped them down in Parliament when she said, 'Stonewall does not decide the law in this country.' (I can quote this - I made the meme!)
I do feel that Stonewall has less political clout than it did, even when Badenoch said this to resounding cheers (certainly in our house, and I suspect also yours, Dennis), so I have less fear that this will become any kind of policy now than I would have had, say, five years ago.
That said, I would not trust these devious Stonewall people as far as I could throw a copy of the Dentons Document.
If two men were in a gay relationship and one of them starts claiming to be a straight woman due to internalised homophobia would his partner be vulnerable to an accusation of this rape-lite if he insists they are still a gay male couple having same-sex intercourse?
As with everything else, trying to include "gender identity" as a factor makes it very confusing.
Conversion therapy, like all aversion therapy, requires a target behavior/attitude that brings pleasure to the patient. Gender dysphoria, by definition, brings displeasure to the patient.
one source for the 12% claim could be this 2019 report. it lists 13 different experiences ppl had, one of which is rape. but rape is also defined as "Corrective rape is a hate crime where a person is targeted because of their perceived sexual or gender orientation. The
common intended consequence of the rape, as seen by the perpetrator, is to ‘correct’ the person’s orientation, to turn them
heterosexual, or to make them ‘act’ more in conformity with gender stereotypes."
"Seven out of 10 people who are lesbian, gay bisexual or transgender say that they have been sexually harassed at work. Twelve per cent of LGBT women report being seriously sexually assaulted or raped by colleagues."
Yes, the implication that therapy can be considered 'mind rape', because the patient later claims they did not consent to having their identity beliefs challenged, is clearly intended to outlaw any form of psychological gatekeeping for medical and surgical gender interventions. Just an allegation could be career-ending, without any prosecution taking place.
The challenge is to maintain healthcare funding for medical and surgical gender transition procedures without any oversight from health professionals. There is a precedent for this in the mental distress clause of the Abortion Act 1967, which is completely subjective of course. Some NHS hospitals were caught pre-signing blank abortion forms because they knew a self-report of distress by a motivated patient is meaningless.
What a superb article.
Surely the most obvious explanation is that they want to hoover the scare word of rape into their campaign that will primarily criminalise therapists and religious conservatives. With the bonus that the targets of this thought police legislation will be lumped in with actual rapists in terms of stigma.
Nonetheless an excellent article exposing the lack of merit of the specific proposal.
Is Stonewall keeping quiet about the fact that they want this law to protect trans “identity” and criminalise challenging the concept? This is the real objective. To criminalise all critiques of “trans”. So in fact nothing at all has changed at Stonewall.
Dennis, thank you for this. A couple of points:-
I've only ever seen the term corrective rape used in the context of lesbians ie men imposing heterosexual acts upon them to 'correct' their homosexuality. Its hard to imagine an equivalent being imposed on men. I can see that punishment rapes by men on men are a reality, but not heterosexual acts?
I would also add that men identifying as trans and forcing sex on lesbians could well also be construed a form of corrective rape. 'Get to love my girl dick!'!
Completely take your point Lynne, "corrective" rape could only ever be of a lesbian by definition. As to the trans example, God only knows what a court would make of that when the Defendant claimed to be a woman, that's a whole other can of worms we might get some assistance with when the FWS judgment comes out.
The paradox is that a rapist of a lesbian could claim that it was not conversion practice because he is also a lesbian, with the Equality Act protected characteristic of gender identity. Would this trump a victim's protected characteristic of a sincerely held belief that a man cannot be a lesbian? What happens if the victim does not hold that belief because they are a 'trans ally'?
Now I need a Venn diagram.
Hi Lynn, if the proposed law doesn't specify in which direction the corrective goes, a man who is accused of raping a straight man could in theory also be accused of disrespecting the victim's sexual identity via a conversion practice. I would imagine a prosecution on that basis as being very unlikely, as it would imply a two-tier standard depending on the sexuality of the victim, and almost no-one considers straight men as having a protected characteristic. But if the law is consistent, it could be an aggravating factor.
Yes I see your point Daniel. Tho disrespecting sexual identity is still different to the notion of 'corrective' which implies corrective towards heterosexuality and would therefore be inflicted by a heterosexual.
Rape, however, does not belong within the Conversion Therapy model, whichever way you cut it. Its this attempt to redefine language and terms to suit their activist agenda which is in some ways most concerning. We are already in deep sht by the corruption of terms such as woman and lesbian, to redefine rape out of its violence context and into a conversion therapy model is potentially horrifying in its consequences.
Thanks, Dennis.
Great piece.
Have cross posted.
https://dustymasterson.substack.com/p/the-quick-and-the-dead
Dusty
Brilliant Dennis, as always. Encouraging people (especially children) to assume the fantasy status of ‘trans identity’ (whatever tf that is) is already a type of conversation therapy. It converts people from their natural state of being into an unnatural and even dangerous position - in relation to both their mental & their physical health.
As for the situation with rape - its definition & suggested treatment in law - WTAF? Horrific.
Fascinating, thank you.
Again, this utter sham of a formely-admirable charity attempts to write its own law. Those efforts were brought to a proper public awareness in December 2023 when Kemi Badenoch threw some much-needed disinfecting sunlight on them as she slapped them down in Parliament when she said, 'Stonewall does not decide the law in this country.' (I can quote this - I made the meme!)
I do feel that Stonewall has less political clout than it did, even when Badenoch said this to resounding cheers (certainly in our house, and I suspect also yours, Dennis), so I have less fear that this will become any kind of policy now than I would have had, say, five years ago.
That said, I would not trust these devious Stonewall people as far as I could throw a copy of the Dentons Document.
Good article Denden. Informative as hell.
Why is Stonewall still in business? Who is giving these c***s money these days? They are completely discredited, surely?
Again? They never relent do they?
Excellent crisp article.
Why is Stonewall involved at all? Astonishing.
Rape is rape, regardless of the intent by the rapist
If two men were in a gay relationship and one of them starts claiming to be a straight woman due to internalised homophobia would his partner be vulnerable to an accusation of this rape-lite if he insists they are still a gay male couple having same-sex intercourse?
As with everything else, trying to include "gender identity" as a factor makes it very confusing.
Good lord!
Conversion therapy, like all aversion therapy, requires a target behavior/attitude that brings pleasure to the patient. Gender dysphoria, by definition, brings displeasure to the patient.
one source for the 12% claim could be this 2019 report. it lists 13 different experiences ppl had, one of which is rape. but rape is also defined as "Corrective rape is a hate crime where a person is targeted because of their perceived sexual or gender orientation. The
common intended consequence of the rape, as seen by the perpetrator, is to ‘correct’ the person’s orientation, to turn them
heterosexual, or to make them ‘act’ more in conformity with gender stereotypes."
https://www.sor.org/news/ezine/lgbt-workers-experience-shockingly-high-levels-(1)
"Seven out of 10 people who are lesbian, gay bisexual or transgender say that they have been sexually harassed at work. Twelve per cent of LGBT women report being seriously sexually assaulted or raped by colleagues."
"Qualitative evidence from this research and
The Cost of Being Out at Work survey shows
that many lesbian and bisexual women
have experienced verbal sexual harassment
from men at work, which included threats
of unwanted sexual activity aimed at
‘turning them straight.’ These threats link to
a specifi c form of targeted sexual violence
experienced by lesbian and bisexual women
where sexual assault and rape are used as a
way of punishing and ‘curing’ them of their
sexual orientation. This is also known as
‘corrective rape.’16"
from methodology section-
The research examined the following aspects
of sexual harassment of LGBT workers:
› unwelcome verbal sexual advances
› unwelcome jokes of a sexual nature
› unwelcome questions/ comments about
your sex life
› comments of a sexual nature about your
sexual orientation
› comments of a sexual nature about your
gender identity
› hearing colleagues make comments of a
sexual nature about a straight colleague in
front of you
› hearing colleagues make comments of a
sexual nature about a lesbian/gay woman,
gay man, bisexual or trans colleague in
front of you
› receiving unwanted emails with material of
a sexual nature
› receiving unwanted messages with
material of a sexual nature over s
displays of pornographic photographs or
drawings in the workplace
› unwanted touching
› sexual assault (unwanted touching of the
breasts, buttocks or genitals, attempts
to kiss)
› serious sexual assault or rape.
Yes, the implication that therapy can be considered 'mind rape', because the patient later claims they did not consent to having their identity beliefs challenged, is clearly intended to outlaw any form of psychological gatekeeping for medical and surgical gender interventions. Just an allegation could be career-ending, without any prosecution taking place.
The challenge is to maintain healthcare funding for medical and surgical gender transition procedures without any oversight from health professionals. There is a precedent for this in the mental distress clause of the Abortion Act 1967, which is completely subjective of course. Some NHS hospitals were caught pre-signing blank abortion forms because they knew a self-report of distress by a motivated patient is meaningless.